EPISODES
Episode 16.
Don Ganguly, SVP of Mynd Investment Management at Mynd Management
How do you spend five billion dollars on real estate? That’s billion with a bee. My Guest Don Gangoulie of mind spills all the secrets. In this episode. We walk through retail versus institutional property management, where rental rates are going and how you can deploy billions and billions of dollars over a three year period. I would start with a personal investment on a Parisian apartment overlooking the Eiffel Tower. Thankfully, for their capital, partner, mind is taking a more revenue generation focused approach. Thanks for listening. You’re listening to the real estate of things podcast. Welcome to the real estate of things podcast. I’m your host, Dalton Elliott. I’m joined today a very special guest, Don Gangouli of mind. I has senior vice president of institutional growth at mind. That’s myind mind is the first and really the only end to end real estate platform that helps investors, from first time home buyers all the way through to global financial institutions, find finance by manage and sell residential properties. Of really a big umbrella there, Don thank you so much for joining. Glad to be here. Thank you for having me so you all have been very busy I was poking around your website a little bit and I actually saw you all at the I am in West Single family rental conference. I got a very big presence there. You all just closed on a fifty seven million dollar around pegging your firms valuation at over eight hundred million. So I think you know it’s the holiday season as we record this episode, but also quite a bit of room for celebration over at mind. So walk me through where mind is and what you all are up to. Yeah, I think that investment is a confluence of two different things, one being how robust, strong and vibring…
…the single family running industry is and it’s future. And you know mine’s role is a leader in that sort of ecosystem. So it’s always a combination of two things. When you have a Marquie investor come in at a decent valuation, they say that we see your in a in an industry with a pretty big sandbox, a lot of room to grow, and we see you doing many things right. So we think you’ve got a fresh shot at becoming a leader. Of course, a lot of it comes down to execution, which is why we were all here right. So about my mind has an interesting genesis. You know the founders, Doug, Brian and Cornwale. They were they founded a single family investment platform called waypoint back in the day in two thousand and nineteen and they, I think they invest in close to Seventeen Tho homes took that public. It subsequently merge with Colony Star War invitation homes became a pretty large, big he but and as they were running it they came out. The big thesis was that, you know, it’s you managing a complex asset set and the managers themselves are mom and pop or using third party technology. It’s kind of the analog is going to Morgan Stanley or golden sacks and putting a portfolio together for your investment and then when it comes to managing it, they say that it’s going to be Joe’s portfolio shop across the street that’s going to manage it. You’re like, wait a minute, you taking all my money. You’re telling me you’re here’s to invest and you’re not managing it, and that’s that was kind of the state of the industry. As in the big reas is a lot of money went into the acquisition and the technology behind acquisition, but not a lot of management. So they found in mine in two thousand and sixteen with the idea of building a tech board, probably management company, and that’s kind of the journey we went on early on with retail investors and companies invested, I think, upwards of ninety million dollars in technology and be built it of one of a kind scalable platform that allows us to, you know, be nimble, to scalely easily, to be more cost effective for clients and then have an underlying substructure of data so that we could measure everything so when the clouds on the horizon, we see it early that we’re about to screw up, so we can kind of pre empt…
…that. When they’re things that are not going right, we can work with that. So it’s a very unique culture as far as the property management company goes, because most of the people in the industry are using some sort of third party property where you are dy a fol you, and so they’re dependent on these folks, one size fat salt type of thing, whereas for us we can be much more bespoke because it’s our technology, it’s scaled from the ground up, and so that’s that’s kind of the history. Fast forward into more of the present. I think towards the end of last year when, you know, the covid kind of cause the wall of capital to start coming into residential real estate because people saw that it’d been an industry that’s been robust, it’s held its value, it’s you know, it’s been there up and down, through good and bad times. So we started getting approached by a number of large institutional investors saying, you’ve got a national platform, you have the technology of the people, we’d like you to manage bulk stuff that we are going to invest in in many markets. Now I know later on in the conversation we’re going to talk about institutional versus retail, but when we look at that, we sort of diduce that institutional investors have certain needs that are very different from retail investors in terms of reporting, in terms of how they look at the portfolio, how they acquire. So we stood up an institutional business within mind, which was called mine and shoot investment management men, which is a group that I’m part of now, and the idea of that is that would help institutions acquire as well as manage their assets. So that was late last year and then this year we started seeing institutions coming to us saying, I know you manage, you’ve got a great data and an acquisition technology. We you know, we we have information one hundred ten million trend you know, properties for transactions for twenty years. We track to her thousand neighborhood. So we built a very robust data and analytics engine that we use for acquisition as well as for management. You know, it’s sort of embedded within the I would say, the blood stream of the company, and that’s the point that week sort of ended up with INVESTCO, which is again a topic…
I know we’ll talk about here, where they committed to investing about five billion dollars over the next three years with the mind platform. And so it became a combination of standing up a property management arm that would help institutions and then taking our acquisition engine and helping someone like investco acquire substantial number of properties over the next several years. And so, you know, mine today is close to tenzero properties in you know, national about twenty six plus markets growing extremely rapidly around you know, both those kind of motions as well as obviously we continue with our retail motion. But you put so well in the beginning you know, everything from acquiring doing the due diligence on it, you know, then actually managing it, but also providing finance insurance. So kind of an end to end integrated investment management solution for retail investors. And then there’s a subset of that that obviously we bring to the party for institutional investors. So that’s kind of an overall mind value proposition. And obviously we’re still a work in progress and we continue to improve each of these sort of motions as we as we move forwards. Yeah, a lots unpack and I want to, in my mind, break it up between property may management and acquisition. Most episodes of this podcast, you know, our production team comes up with the title. They give a few options. In my mind, how to spend five billion dollars is as a good one, but we’ll see what the more creative minds come up with. But starting on the property management side of the fence, you know, very, very unique in that you work with the retail investors all the way up to massive financial institutions, really institutional size firms. What are some of the differences? What are some of the similarities? In my day job at lemoin capital, where a lender to real estate investors. We work with someone who is doing their very first deal, whether it’s buying their first rental property, buying their first property to flip, all the way up to folks who do hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of these a year,…
…and there are a lot of differences, there are some similarities. So so what do you see on the property management side? You know, the biggest thing, or probably the best way to look at this is when you’re an institutional investor, you’re you’re looking at metrics across a portfolio, right, so you’re saying, you know, I got a hundred properties, I got a thousand properties, whatever you might have, and you’re looking at metrics. That’s it’s you know, the vacancies, full percent, delinquencies, five percent, evictions, pointy percent, you know, whatever those numbers are. You’re factoring it in the context of the overall portfolio. If you are an individual investor, you know you’ve got one or two properties when that’s vacant, your vacancies a hundred percent, you know, or one of the one of the two is vacant of vacancies fifty percent, because you don’t have the ability to normalize it across the larger portfolio. So the level of angst is very different from an from from an institutional investor. Obviously it’s like, you know, you buy a couple of stocks and then your glued looking at what those stocks are doing. Or maybe you’ve invested in Bitcoin and put quite a lot of money in there and then you know it’s goes from tenzero to Fiftyzero to Fortyzero and you you’re writing that Yo, Yo. So so that’s I think you know what you service your client, but the biggest thing is you can understand where what their hope streams and aspirations are. You know, the mind sort of tagline that we use as happy homes and healthy investments. The reason we use these two is happy homes is basically if you don’t have a happy resident, that’s your cash flow engine. So you know you you lose out if you’re not focused on the resident as a as a major customer or focus point of yours. And healthy investments is speaking to whether it’s institutional or retail investor, that they’re making money from this investment. Right when we we have a whole bunch of metrics, but we can’t lose sight of the fact that is this person getting what they wanted? They had a certain thesis when they came in. Are we being able to deliver that investment thesis to them? So that’s manifests in a bunch of different ways. Right. So a retail investor, for example, on the front end of the acquisitions process, can get jaded when they make five offers and don’t get in. You know, and…
…in choosal investor it’s a it’s par for the course. They know that if they make twenty offers, they’ll get me five. So they’re they’re playing that statistical game the retail investor. Sometimes, you know, you used to bargaining in certain areas. This is not a market you can bargain too much. Right prices that there’s high velocity. So sometimes, as an educational process, that says, Hey, you know, if you want to play, you really don’t have a lot of time to go back and forth. You got to make sure that this works for you. And maybe there’s a little queshion on top of it that you need to come up with. And people are doing it buying homes today. Right. They’re not necessarily getting what they want when they walk in the door right away to buy home. So that’s part of the orientation is they they don’t think of it in law of large numbers or in terms of data. And on the property management side, when they get a vacancy or when when we have to set rent and rent some moving rapidly, as you know. I mean they’re you know, home prices are moving in faster, but rents a moving very rapidly and faster and cer certain markets and others. And the retail investors nervous about vacancy. So they are sometimes nervous to push the needle and say, oh no, let’s let me not go to market, I may not get anybody or it may be making longer. And so where the institutional investor is going to be much more. Let’s get to market rend right, because they know that what it’s like. Salary, wherever you start your basis from there right, we’re going to make a whole lot more if you entry salary is not where it should be. And so that makes for a different dynamic for a property management teams because we’ve got to balance the angst and and the aspiration of the angst of the retail investor in the aspiration of the institutional investor. But I think those are sort of important things. A lot of retail investors in the property management side, you know, they may not have a massive cushion. They’re here for some cash flow and so in that cash loow gets disrupted. Things you know they’re not which can happen right and if you know, a tenant might leave or they might have a life circumstance or something might happen with the property and suddenly there’s and expands. I mean these are all things if you can predict, and we always recommend that. You know, don’t take it last dollar and put it in here. You know have a qushion because you know real estate,…
…when we factor vacancies and the factor, you know, repair and maintenance expenses, they’re actually normalize over a large period of time. So the fact that you didn’t see anything the first two years doesn’t mean that you know that number is not going to equalize you at in the third year with some expense. And sometimes people, you know, are sort of not quite cognizanto that or they choose not to tune into set fact. So those are outsa. Those are some of the differences from property managements and point, which is the reason we stood up. You know different property management operation because it’s, you know, retail investors want every little detail about their property. So we have, you know, we’ve got our own sort of platform called our or, where they can log in and they can see every little inspection that was done, all the pictures that are there. We provide a ton of data back to our clients because their data driven company. So and it’s all very transparent. They can go in and see who are the prospects that applied on a particular property when it was vacant. They can see all the maintenance requests, they can see, you know, the repair that was done. It’s all right there and for a retail investor, that property, or those two three properties, are very, very important to them. So they want transaction level detail at that level. Institutions are more concerned about macro level details. So they want they want to be able to drill down when they want to, but they’re not interested in you providing the minutia of, you know, every little property trans action over a period of time. They’re more looking at, you know, you getting the rents that are at market? Are Your repairs inline or the trending somewhere else? How quickly are you responding. You know what’s your vacate to move in time? You know how quickly can you rent a property? So it’s higher level stuff. What’s it taking you to renovator property? Are Your renovations coming in on time, and how what of my repairs look like after renovation? Because sometimes they’ll trade off building at that Mahal versus, you know, something in between, so that you know it’s more reasonable upfront, but and maybe they incur some expenses down the line, but there’s always an optimization going on. So there’s a lot more science behind the institutional investors and they all love the fact that we are able to provide them…
…data. So when we’re doing well, it shows. When we’re not doing so well, it also shows and we are able to correct stuff pretty quickly. The one other thing I would mention, which is kind of unique for us, is we sort of look at property management as a service business. So it’s not like we we don’t look at it as saying, you know, here’s one property manager of managers for Hun Properties, another four hundred second property manager. That’s not how we run our business. We look at centers of excellence and subject matter. So we have leasaying for example, a center of Excellence on boarding, off voting as a center of excellence. We have residence services looking after the tenant as a center ECKLENCE, the property is a center of excellence. And we have this sort of methodology which we called the metaphor is we build a plane and we fly the plane and the build a plane is each of these centers of excellence have a triad of the operations person that’s leading it, there’s a product person that’s actually working there to see what processes can be improved or automated or where we’re falling down and where there’s opportunity for improvement, and there’s an engineering person who’s working with the product person to implement whatever we come up with them. So it’s guys on it’s a culture of continuous improvement. So wherever we are, we always want to make sure that we’re trying to improve that in each of these centers of excellent. So that makes us very different and how we approach each of these processes and since we build our own systems, we can look at the data and quickly, you know, decide where the improvements are. So, for example, you know, our entire business is driven around tasks right now, going on the rabbit hole that I’ll come out of it. And task templates are fully automated. So there’s a moveout task, some person that’s doing it automatically sees a series of tasks. Each of the tasks as have timeline, so they know what they have to do, they know what triggers off what and who comes behind them. And then we as a business look at those tasks, completion times, a quality of those tasts, so we can see how the business is scaling and how if, at a granular level you’d in the job right, then when you aggregate the overall jobs going to be right. So we always go down to the route and everything we do. So that’s fairly unique in the property marriagement business and allows us to scale much faster, so without…
…adding just bodies. Every time we have to add bodies. We’re growing very fast, but it’s not linear by any means. Yeah, that is a novel approach and as you describe it, it sounds like it’s. It creates a breeding ground for innovation right, because that divvying up those centers of excellence. Everyone that’s within that team has their piece of the Pie. That you know the job is improving this, improving what’s right in front of me, and you’re able to have a good mix of kind of a big picture and in the weeds. Love that approach. You mentioned the institutional partnership side of the Fens and you know earlier in Vasco and the five billion dollar clip over, you said over three years. That is a lot of capital over a relatively short horizon. Where in the world do you even start? How does that work? Walk me through that partnership and walk me through really how this is going to be executed over the next couple of years. Yeah, I think the short answer answer is that we do everything within, you know, the investment thesis. So we are will look at, you know, built to rent projects where it makes sense and with the numbers and the locations. If we’re looking at we look at open market deals from the MLS. We have direct connections to all the listing services. We built an engine for that. We have filters and that we can quickly filter down properties that makes sense for us from a capriate return and overall time crison standpoint. So we’re able to quickly do a bunch of rifle shots right because we have the data we have the thing called neighborhood investment rating that we great neighborhoods from eight D and we’re able to see, you know, whether what the neighborhood is, what the ecosystem looks like, what the economy, that microeconomy, is doing, what the neighborhood is trending towards, and all that data is fairly available to us because it’s in our platform. And continually improve that. So that’s another,…
…another emotion for us. And then we will buy portfolios from our market folks, from the usual brokers. There’s a number of others that actually cater to you and come in and say hey, give me a buy box, I’ll go find stuff for you. So we’ll look at that as well. We are buying from the eyebarers, you know. We’re well connected with those folks. So you know we have, I think, mind on the Essotional side. It’s run by David Jen a ty who has chief real estate officer, long history in the industry. Worked with waypoint in the early days with dug and Devin Colin and then was it open door and other places came from a IG prior to that. So we built a team that are, you know, journeyman real estate sort of people or journey person rest to people that are all fairly worse and how to do these things. So it’s they’re not doing it for the first time. And then we have a capital market arm where if the deal needs to be structured in a certain way, I thinks need to be done there. Then we can kind of put that together. So I would say we’ve kind of built an overall engine that looks at every kind of opportunity and has a separate focus subject area so that we can fire in each of these sort of motions and the aggregate hopefully get springs his home. See you mentioned your ABCD, the neighborhood grading system. Can you give a peek under the hoods, like what are some of the factors they go into grading a neighborhood? It’s a lot of different things, right. It’s things like, you know, you look at, you know, home price appreciation, you look at median income, you look at, you know, how proximity to certain kinds of industries, you know they are they within communing distance? What’s the chance of this neighborhood doing well and not doing well? You know, we even look look at things like starbucks Walmarts, you know, things of that nature. They correlate, you know, to you know the type of neighborhood you’re looking at. You know. So there there’s probably initially forty factors that we looked at and about twelve to thirteen that correlated well that we looked at. And so medium price of homes is obviously another one in those that you know. And a neighborhood investment rating doesn’t mean it’s a…
…bad or a good neighborhood, which means that certain neighborhoods are more likely to give you higher returns but more volatility from a from a yield standpoint, and certain neighborhoods are going to give you a lower returns but less volatility, right. I mean so it’s a matter of like picking stocks or bonds. Right, you can hire respond or you buy a stock that’s more volatile, but you know you might have a higher, higher upside. So any of these things, if you look at really see investment, what you’re really looking at is a bond with an equity kicker. Right, you’re getting a certain return and then at the end of it you get a certain HPA on the property, and so you factor in both when you’re looking at total returns and so the neighborhood investment ratings kind of figure both those out. Some have higher HPA, low yield and some of hire, you know, you build in lower HPA. So prepable thing and the overall returns at the end depends on you know what you’re looking for. So you all are looking our nationwide and we are in a pretty unique environment right now. Right rates are incredibly low. We have been riding massive home price appreciation. I don’t think massive is an inappropriate word to attach to it. So now, looking ahead, how are you kind of prepping for any potential downside? Do you think that? Are you bullish on nationwide home prices holding and HPA normalizing for the next few years? Do you have any concerns about the kind of a, you know, double digit pull back in some markets of HPA that’s happened over the last eighteen, twenty four months? How are you reading the tea leaves on that? So there’s a million dollar question right. That’s all. We’re not nationwide. Were in you know, we’re not in the northeast and we’re not in most of the Midwest. We’re not there yet. But everything else pretty much we’ve, I think we’re in twenty six plus markets right now and for us it doesn’t take as long to spin out of spin up a market based on the structure it described you earlier. You know, the the bigger trend were that everyone seeing is that caprit compressing a little bit, because home prices, as you’re pointing out, is sometimes two X to three x of rent growth.
Places like Austin it’s much high PERSLEC Atlanta at at least two X, and at all kind of is driven by, you know, supply demand equations and available inventory. So one of the things I think we’re like a million plus houses short of what we need from a household formation standpoint and the employment growth and just generally population growth that we have. And I think if you look at the pipeline of what’s under construction what’s permitted, most people are looking at two thousand and twenty three as a time that this will probably get normalized, that enough homes will actually hit the market from the new construction standpoint and probably the existing inventory piece, which is also been kind of tight, will probably start to normalize more. So I think you’ll start seeing probably next year is going to be more of more of the same would be the guests. But the year after I think we’re going to start seeing a reduction and maybe in the home price appreciation, given that if more supply hips, and there is a thesis that you know that certain markets. I mean, you look at a few different factors right. You look at a market and you say, what’s the available stock, like Atlanta has like, I don’t know, two point two million or something like that as a stock, and what’s what are the number of homes that sell in a year, as typically about five percent of that. Then you say, okay, what’s the employment growth? What’s the population growth, and how you know how many are the new construction starts that are happening and what was a historical number of, you know, available properties that we’re there on the MLS, which is reduced now. So if you take all of those together, like Austin has a crazy employment group because of just you know, what’s coming in and hence population growth. Atlanta is most steady, Eddie. It’s an it’s very strong market for a lot of people, but it doesn’t have that sort of an explosive growth. So the question is, how much is being built in these markets? So it’s like really a micro discussion. And in those markets, are we over building beyond what the normal demand might be, or are we going to be an equilibrium? And my you know the general fruence of stuff to tell, but there are certain markets like Atlant at, Houston, awesome, couple of others where…
…a ton of new constructions going on. We got to keep an eye on and see what happens in two thousand and twenty three and whether we whether we’ve were built overhe we were okay from that perspective. But in general I think that’s the time. It’s a few supply to men. If the economy holds up right. The economy holds up, if the supply hits the market, then I think we see a reduction in these crazy price growth. As far as the rent growth goes, I think the rent growth, you know, it’s twelve fifteen percent higher in certain markets. So I think it maybe there’s a reversion to mean, but I in this environment and more and more people are renting, especially in these new communities and other places, I think it continues to be strong. So if anything decapitate, the investment thesis might improve because the rent courts stay steady. In, hopefully, and the price growth declines a little bit so you can get in it at a better cost basis. I don’t know if I answer your question, but that’s kind of at a macro level how we sort of think of things. But you know, we don’t see the other question. We don’t see some massive correction. The demand is strong. You know, you’re at a four point where two percent unemployment, more people are entering the workforce here what sixty one point focus in or something participation. That I saw in the journal and that numbers caught up you. If anything, you got to labor shortage. You’re going to see wages go up. So as the rents go up, you know the wages are going up. So that’s a good thing. They’ll be able to afford it and which is why real estate is a good inflatient heads right. The rents rise in good time. So I don’t see any big clouds in the horizon based on what’s going on right now. I mean there’s no structural mismatch going on this, no easy lending policies. If anything, that a lot of people on the sidelines that are not being able to get in. That’s what’s driving up prices. So if you increase inventory and mor more people are able to participate, you think they get back more of a normal yeah, that true. Supplied to me in Delta Right. And you you mentioned a million homes and I think, based on the kind of estimates I’ve seen, that’s on the more conservative side. So if anything, it’s that or even potentially higher on the number of units that need to be built out to really satiate that the demand that’s out there. So I always point to that same…
…metric on why I’m bullish for the next few years is that you have a literal supply to me, an issue that’s not going to be solved any time in the immediate future. Have you talk with suppliers? At a conference in Vegas a couple months ago, I was talking with one who said they were the particular material that they created, that their company was built on, and said they were down thirty percent this year on what they were able to produce unit wise, they’re booking the same expectation for next year. So to be at that, you know, thirty percent below normal production, right. So these macro issues you see. You flip on the news and you see shipping containers just sitting out in the ocean like these things are not solving overnight and even if you said all right, all cargo containers hit land, you’re still months away from even that fantastical scenario really seeing any material difference in the market. So, yeah, I’m with you. The you know, will inevitably see rates rise, but we are at, you know, just a hair above all time historical rock bottom lows. So that’s that’s not a bad thing from a macroeconomic standpoint. Normalization there. But yeah, that I’m glad you brought up the delta of supply and demand, because that’s not going to fix itself very soon. So it’s going to continue to keep home prices strong. Yeah, and the supply chain issue is you’re mentioning. You know, somebody at a recent conferencing is that a supply or supplied chain. So the shipping container phenomena where, you know, you’ve got empty container sitting in Long Beach and Los Angeles and ships wading out of see kind of come in, has been a function of all these factories and come Bill Cambodia, Vietnam, at the places being shut down by COVID and men. To you, then you sort of uncalked that and, you know, expanded that aperture and start people start coming in. You hit that choke point right. You just had too…
…much coming in in a short period of time and if you don’t see another sort of wave of covid I think those factories get to normal, you’ll slowly start seeing things come back to normal and the supply chain side, that’s the whope. On the supply side they may be an endemic problem with Labor. You know, immigrations down and a lot of other things are down in different areas and a lot of people that we’re talking to its cities like Phoenix. Their construction capacity is gone down because they just don’t have enough labor. You know, lumber starts with Labor. You don’t have the Labor for the lumber and the wood doesn’t you know. So all of the above and I don’t know what it takes to fix that, whether it’s just a migration out of the workforce or people sometimes going you know, there’s a lot of people going out and manufacturing doing other things right. So I don’t know if there’s been a structural displacement into other industries or just some people waiting in the in the sidelines. I don’t I don’t think we know the answer to that. But if that labor shortage continues, that’s going to crimp your supply it labor supplies on a crimp the supply chain. So’s to speak, great over the law. And so there are forces at work here that are tough to predict and if anything, they could slow down the delivery of homes that come into the market, which would then mean that the normalization would take longer. Right, because the other factor in that discussion are millenniums and what percentage of them are actually able to come up at the downpayment to buy a home. So you know, if you look at the Fah a loan limits are you know, the jumbolone limits have been increased. So we Fah loans are the ones where you can put in a load down payment and get in the door, but there are certain limits to that as well. So, as you know, you can from them away brookerage industry. So I don’t know how many of them are have dry powder that it wants to supply. Opens Up. They can go buy a bunch of homes or now they’re comfortable renting and they get all the benefits of having the dog play in the backyard, having an office house, you know, having a community and a pool, and they might say hell, you know, maybe I put my money into Robin Hood or some of the place and not not in real estate, you know, because it requires just more money. And I want to be mobile and I’m living somewhere and maybe at some point they’re going to call me back. But so I better rent and not own type of thing. I don’t know. So…
…those are those are all the factors that are going to play into the band from the next generation down. So it’s see. Yeah, new shortage of kind a million dollar questions. We just ran through there. We sprinted through a litany of them. I love it. I love it. So for people looking to learn more about mine, M Y in D dot co, not CEO, right, not cold. Yeah, that’s the important thing that a lot of people think it’Scom but it’s M Y in d dot CEO, and you know that’s you got a bloods of information there. Or you know, if somebody’s listening to this podcast, they can reach me and down dot game Google, I’m sure the name will be up there at mind dot CEO and happy to take any questions. Answer anything or help somebody move forward their investment pieces, whatever it may be, beautiful, retail, institutional side, everything in between. Hey, dawn, thank you so much for taking some time to chat with me. I really enjoyed it. Thank you. It’s great to be here and great questions. I don’t know if you solve the problems of the world. Maybe we can take on Water Hundo next in the next episode. Will do that? will do do a q two, two thousand and twenty two episode on that one, so come back for more. So thank you, Don for joining and thanks to everyone for listening to another episode of the real estate of things. Are you a real estate investor looking for the right lender that can finance all your deals and help you scale? Lima one capital has the best suite of loan products in the Industry Barn, whether that’s fix and flips, fix and holds, building new construction or buying rental properties. They have incredible financing solutions for it all. A reliable common since Linder is one of the most important parts of your investment team, and that’s exactly what you get with Lima one. Let Lima one capital show you how they’ve helped thousands of real estate investor scale and increase their well check out…
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